Naked Dating Wants Your SXSW Lovin’
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Last year, the dynamic duo won the hearts of the SXSW attendees and Texans alike with their panel that offered some good laughs and beer for participation. What will those two get up to this year? Maybe they’ll even present naked? Article of clothing for participation? Leave your comments and suggestions below!
Its business time baby :)
Naked Dating Question: How Far Would You Follow?
Just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse, Mel and Jer are back at it answering your dirtiest questions on love, lust and social media. The gloves are off as they debate whether or not to follow a hot new fling.
From Follow-Worthy: So I met this guy off an online dating site. We’ve gone out a few times and it’s been fun. We’re both on twitter but aren’t following each other though we do know each other’s username. At what point would it be right to start following each other? I feel like Twitter can reveal an awful lot of details in a person’s life & that maybe I don’t need to know everything about him right now. Thoughts?
I tend to follow interesting people I meet (or already know) right away, and usually with excitement - “omg! you’re also on twitter!!!” then whip out my iPhone, and search them in my tweet agora. Here’s my question: if you’re not willing to follow the guy, why are you going dating him? Sounds like either 1) He’s not interesting 2) You haven’t really bought in to him yet or 3) You’re afraid you’ll look too eager by following first… and what if he doesn’t follow you back?!?
If there isn’t a mutual “I think you are interesting and want to hear more from you” then that’s your cue to exit the stage and move on to brighter lights. This musical is 2 Lady Gaga songs away from being a drag show.
Well folks probably know Mel and I disagree on the whole “dating in social media” thing. I think it’s an incredibly easy way to meet people, but I (burned twice, so admittedly there’s baggage here) think that it creates a whole lot of room for drama, miscommunication and general over-sharing. Plus, I’d rather tell the person I’m with about my day than have them read it in tiny snippets. Call me crazy, but talking to the chick I dig is so much sexier than trading tweets.
But really, come on, it’s just a Twitter follow… Don’t overthink it!
You’re getting to know each other, so Twitter is perfect if you can avoid drama/jealousy/etc. If you can’t, then don’t. Either way, you need to be able to communicate with the person you’re interested in. This really should be a straightforward: “I don’t really mind either way, but what do you think about following each other on Twitter?”
Honestly, you two just met online. I think Twitter would be the perfect ice-breaker to take you two from awkward-first-dates to feeling-like-friends. While getting to know each other for the first time, Twitter references can make for great conversation starters… Like “Loved that article you tweeted about earlier - in my opinion…”
Also, I wouldn’t be too worried about sharing too much too soon. Personally, the first time I met my (now) bf IRL I felt like I’d known him my whole life because we followed one another. Since he already knew who I was, I was able to take down my defenses and open up much sooner. If you are not at the point where you are regularly chatting on the phone, twitter could be a great solution in the interim.
However — do what makes you comfortable. If following eachother doesn’t, then you’ve answered your own question. At the end of the day, Jeremy’s advice sums it up perfectly: don’t over think it.
Twitter is a fantastic way to get to know someone. Flat out. There’s something inherently “awww lemme pinch-your-cheeks” cute about couples who are able to flirt on Twitter without being “OMG get-a-room-before-I-vomit”. Fundamentally if you’re likely to miscommunicate, be jealous or have drama come out of one or both of you following each other on Twitter or Facebook or even Tumblr then it isn’t worth it. If it’s going to help you get to know each other more, communicate more and provide a new level of depth to your relationship then I say give’er!
Inter-Industry Dating Qualms: Whether or Not To Date In Social Media
Like a bad rash, these two are back and heating things up with answers to your dirtiest questions on modern dating. Don’t hold back on them now — ask your burning, itching dating questions here.
This week’s question is about mixing work and pleasure — would you date a fellow social media junkie?
As two social media addicts, the answers are both opinionated and surprising. Get comfortable, get naked; Read, weigh-in… and while you’re at it, tweet them at @smichm and @jeremywright withthe hashtag #nakeddating.
From Don’t Shit Where You Eat: What do you think about an avid social media person dating a non-social media person? Is this wrong? How do you explain to your date all those hard questions about twitter and stuff. Do you think these two people can ultimately get along. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I could probably write a chapter of a book on this question (hmm… a book…), so I’m going to boil this down a bit. The pros and cons of dating non social media folk, and rules of etiquette when doing so.
First off, full disclosure, I’m a huge fan of dating outside of social media. Having done a handful of “integrated” social media relationships which blew up in my face (see previous “almost naked in Vegas hotel” story), the reality is that adding social media to many relationships, especially during the rocky phases that happen to us all, is just asking for trouble. And if one, or both, of you is insecure? Well, if you’ve never seen naptha used instead of gas at a BBQ, let me fill you in: #KABOOM!
The best relationships I’ve had are those where someone balances me out, where we see things differently, and where we can grow together. While dating in social media works for some people (ahem, like Mel and her oh-so-adorable I-just-want-to-pinch-his-cheeks in a mostly-not-quite-gay-way boytoy) because it gives you a lot of common ground and understanding (like checking Twitter from bed, ideally not during #bowchikka)… That balance, at least for me, is often lost. So I don’t date people who are “into” social media.
The flipside of this is that sometimes girls are very not into social media. For example, #thecrush, while familiar with the concepts of social media, only uses Facebook (like “her phone doesn’t even accept picture messages” kind of not into social media). And even then mostly because, since we are long distance, that’s how we communicate on a daily basis (nerd alert: current wordcount of our Facebook messages over last 2 months? 200,000 words). She understands my need to check stuff, tells me to calm down, gets that I’ll occasionally tweet about her (in a non specific way), but is more than able to put me in my place if I’m getting too Twitter-centric. Balance: it’s not just something I failed at in elementary school phys-ed.
So dating outside of social media? It’s a win in my books. That said, here are my three tips:
- If you have some deep seated need to check social media stuff on a related basis, find someone that understands the crackberry-like addiction of social media (ie: lawyers, PR folk, marketers, or just someone who texts alot)
- If you want someone who’s going to help you disconnect, know going in that it’s going to cause friction and you’ll need to compensate for this and create balance somehow
- Either way, respect your time together: turn off the phone during dates, don’t tweet during sex (unless it’s funny, in which case DM me a link!), and above all: keep private things private. There is nothing more disrespectful than your girl/boytoy finding passive aggressive tweets or quasi responses to arguments on your Twitter account.
So while dating in the world of “the normals” can be scary, it’s definitely worthwhile. All of my best dates/crushes/girlfriends over the last two years have been outside of social media. Granted, this could be because I’m as stupid as a #failwhale, but either way it works for me. Figure out what works for you and pursue it. But along the way, don’t forget to break your own rules if you find someone worthwhile (like me breaking my “no long distance rule” for #thecrush… it’s been oh so worthwhile). Allow yourself to be surprised, whether it’s inside or outside social media. You’ll rarely regret it!
There aren’t many things Jer and I fiercely disagree on… this and how to demand anal seem to be it. Since we got the latter out of the way, we both knew this question was nothing more than inevitable. Here goes nothing.
I’m obviously very much Pro-Social Media Dating, especially if both parties are seasoned communicators. I say this in the same sense that I’m pro two people of any similar industry uniting because it’s easier to understand one another’s work-load, daily stresses, interests, and way of thinking.
However, sometimes it’s really nice to get away from all of that and unwind with someone who makes you think of life in a different way. It really depends on what you want and what makes you happy.
In the past, I refused to date within the same industry. This was great because I didn’t have to hear about the latest communication tool or industry drama when I got home. Also, as a right-brain, I found my finance geek boyfriends’ thought processes utterly fascinating. They were an escape into a different world where everything was backwards and topsy-turvy; and I loved it.
Then there were the crappy parts. Ever try explaining social media to a finance geek? Could you imagine having your signif other refer to your career in socmed with an eyeroll and comment along the lines of “when will you get serious about life with a real job?” Blogging was met with “why would you put yourself out there like that?” and him explaining it to friends sounded like “she’s just really into facebook.” He didn’t get it.
I haven’t had a ton of experience dating in the same industry… Luckily, my first attempt was a bulls-eye. It’s a natural fit — side-by-side on our laptops after dinner, both blogging/working/researching/geeking out. My addiction to twitter, time spent blogging and overall career goals are now met with enthusiasm and encouragement… My first attempt at video blogging was met with support and constructive criticism… And I now hear “you should blog that” un-ironically. He gets it.
Mind you, our connectedness has also been the cause of some headaches… But, I find most people – social media savvy or not — fall into some of social media’s unfriendly traps. Just because we are social savvy, definitely doesn’t make us online-issues-immune; however, both being communicators has, on more than one occasion, definitely helped keep things from becoming the shit show I’ve witnessed a lot friends put on.
Additionally, we’ve gotten comfortable sharing our experiences together with… well, our friends, followers, network, etc. and while some people love sharing in experiences with us, I have gotten some flak from people (mainly trolls) about our over-sharing. And it’s hard seeing people enter your personal blog and leave low-blow, personally charged, negative comments about someone you love… but that’s the double-edged sword of living online. (It’s actually worse when the person who posts said anonymous trash forgets to block his IP address… then tries to act like bffs via twitter the next day. True story.)
Finally, *knock on wood* I’ve never been through a break up with a socmed-connected signif other, and can honestly see that as making a breakup ten times harder. A lot of people I know swear to never put themselves through that sort of ordeal ever again, thereby swearing off those in the same industry indefinitely.
At the end of the day, it’s all about personal preference… My recipe for relationship-success consists of having someone who gets it, supports my personal and professional goals, and offers a healthy level of friendly competition. I happened to find that in a fellow social media junkie, but that doesn’t have to always be the case… nor does it mean that one must fish in the same-industry-pool to find someone to fill those requirements.
Haha, how did I know Mel would be pro social media dating? Girl knows which side her libido is, erm, buttered … on… #awkward
Let’s be fair, I think Twitter and social media are a fantastic way of meeting people. It breaks down barriers, gets you into real conversation and lets girls see the “real” side of guys. And for guys, it lets us drop in and out of conversation, only participating when we have something to add. It’s perfect for the initial stages of finding dates, seeing someone and even the relationship. I just think there can be such a thing as too much information. I’d rather tell a significant other about my day than have them know.
Besides, I’m a private person. I did my period of living my whole life in the public eye. Then I got burned by “friends”, an ex, and realized that everyone doesn’t deserve to know everything.
Seriously though, to the original question, dating in social media can be healthy if you know the challenges and keep communicating. Dating outside of social media can be healthy if you, erm, know the challenges and… keep communicating! It’s just different challenges. There is something to be said for dmexing (that’s sexting via DMs, okay? Yes, I made that up… Yes, it probably needs work). Just make sure you don’t #dmfail on the things you want to do
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What are you waiting for? Stop watching and get in the game. Unless that’s what you’re into… in which case, keep watching.
Naked Quick-Fire Questions: Sluts, Scandal and the Social Friending of Exes Dilemma
And the gruesome twosome go at it again with another quick-fire installment of answering your questions, naked (ask yours here!)
This week’s questions include social scarlet letters and the infamous facebook debate: to friend or unfriend the ex?
We may not technically be naked when answering these, we still bare all. Best part, we finish in under five minutes each… and by “finish” I mean answer the questions. So, strip down to your uglies with your bad self and join us. Don’t forget to Tweet us while you’re at it, just hashtag your tweet #nakeddating or send it to @smichm or @jeremywright.
Naked Question 1: The Social Scarlet Letter
From Innocent Bystander: People make assumptions based on… Let’s say limited information. What would you suggest when interesting members of the opposite sex are somewhat wary of you based on misconceptions? In social media, it seems like every time you’re seen kissing someone, the assumption is you’re sleeping with them.
I think this is a question for Jer, as he has had very public hook ups, break ups and make ups… yet still manages to score perfect tens in the community who are completely aware of his past. (Side note: Don’t get me started on the double standard for women in this situation…)
The point of social media is to be able to be yourself. Perhaps the issue is you are not representing yourself as genuinely as possible and need to look into what messages you are communicating that create said misrepresentations. On the other hand – you could just be acting way to sensitive towards online gossip.
“Solitude’s impractical and yet society is deadly” – Ralph Waldo Emerson
You make me sound like some kind of slut Mel :p #bigmeanie
If you’re going to be physically affectionate with someone in public, especially a party or whatnot, you need to be prepared for the consequences of that. You made your (empty) bed, now you have to sleep in it (alone, apparently, though that’s not what I heard! Ohhhhh burn…).
The problem comes when you change your behaviour but the perception doesn’t change. And, really, there’s no quick fix for that. If you have a reputation as a charlatan, the only way to get past that is to be nicer and more gentlemanly than the “nice guys” you’re looking to be framed with. You always have to overcompensate in order to move the perception needle. Or to date outside your regular circle, which I have to say, is generally a good thing. It lets you reboot yourself a little bit and be the guy you want to see in the mirror, but also allows you to go into a dating environment without any of the social baggage. There’s something to be said for starting fresh. It’s like buying a great new pair of boxer briefs: you just feel like a new man!
That’s great advice, Jer. I went through something like this once and going outside of my social circle was the best solution. Perception is reality, so venturing outside of your circle will be the best solution for finding those with fresh perspectives who will generally not be opposed to the idea of dating you.
Naked Question 2: Scandalous Behaviour for the Faint of Heart
From Double-Dipping: I’m (casually) dating two people and they both happen to be on Twitter. They follow one another, but don’t run in the same social circles. Is this still too risky? Should I get out now or is a way to pull this off and avoid potential awkwardness?
To me the point of the initial dating phases is making decisions. The first couple of dates are “is this person interesting”. By the time the third date rolls around you should know if the person is interesting enough to invest in. By the end of the first month you should know if it’s a relationship you want to invest in. For my money, by the time you decide that the person is worth investing in enough to evaluate them as a potential longer term partner, you should be doing everything you can to not fuck it up. Ultimately, you really should avoid being Jack Donaghy: make a choice, otherwise one will be made for you. And nine times out of ten it’ll be the wrong one.
From experience, I really don’t recommend pulling a #jerbear and asking a dozen girls out in 24 hours, having an incredible date with the third one and then needing to cancel on a half dozen girls in the space of a few days. It really, really doesn’t tend to go over very well. Girls talk. Which, in this case, is entirely fair.
Don’t hate me for saying this, but it’s called the dating game for a reason. I don’t condone cheating or juggling people like a circus act, but all’s fair in love and war, right? With an open mind, here’s your answer:
If you can’t play the game at an intermediate level, move back to the novice playing grounds.
Being single is meant to be fun, and until you’ve had the E-word talk (exclusivity) with someone… its not cheating. Maybe not kosher and possibly disrespectful, but technically not against the rules… especially if you are seeing both people casually and you don’t see a potential future (IE. exclusivity) with either. If, however, you do see one as being your next GF/BF don’t sabotage your future: try to commit. Otherwise that person may have issues trusting you and committing in the future.
While I technically agree that there’s no “cheating” until you get to the exclusive stage, playing in the gray areas with someone who could be worthwhile can also be playing with (the wrong kind of) fire. Just be sure you’re good with the consequences if you do get “caught”. I also find if you’re dating two people because you can’t make up your mind, it’s far more likely that neither is what you want, vs that they are both fantastic. Make a call, and find someone good enough for you.
Naked Question 3: The Ex Treatment and Unfriending Territory
From Shakespeare On Facebook: To keep the ex on Facebook or not to keep the ex on Facebook - that is the question.
I’ve had the entire range of experiences here. I found out about a breakup via Facebook (that was fun). I had a girl block me, which was more confusing than hurtful, since she was the one that cheated. One ex trashed my wall (she was drunk and her friends may have been posting via her phone). And then I’ve had friendships rekindled thanks to Facebook, had very civil interactions, etc.
So yeah, lots and lots of Facebook drama, heh.
For most people I think Facebook (like Twitter) is so easy to post to that their behaviour tends to mirror their real world mindset. If they took it very, very poorly in real life they are likely to do the same on Facebook. If they’re the type to shut you out, they’ll do that on Facebook. If they were nice and forgiving and genuinely want to be friends because it just didn’t work out? They’ll do that on Facebook. Twitter is a bit of a different beast because it’s so public, so folk are either more vehement or way more classy (depending on if they care more about hurting you than their own reputation).
Either way, the goal is to try and not have things blowup. Publicly, social media-wise, or even behind the scenes. At least with Facebook you can see what the person is saying and react (or not) accordingly. Also, there is something to be said for helping you, or the other person, recover: limited profiles, blocking, etc, aren’t always drama. Sometimes they’re just helping you or your ex maintain sanity.
This is a hard one and I’ve had these things go different ways. Some people keep the person on, some people keep the ex on but limit profile settings, and others simply delete. I once had an ex delete me, but he thought it was too painful to keep me there…. and I once deleted an ex, but only after finding out his new girlfriend made a hobby out of creeping my profile… and then I have exes who are very much a part of my Facebook life, unlimited profile access and all.
The difference between these is how we felt upon ending things. For example, an ex who found the breakup to be unwanted and was quite hurt when it happened: Probably deleted you to maintain some sense of sanity. On the other end, if you have a mutual, clean break and still act like friends in public, its no big deal to stay friends on the book. However, in most situations you don’t remain bffs with your ex (if you do, you’re either lucky or crazy) and that’s where the problems begin… or rather, continue…
Here’s the big issue: social media is popular because it feeds into our voyeuristic nature. This is a double edged sword when it comes to relationships — just as it can help grow a relationship faster and stronger, it can also destroy a relationship with the same force. If the relationship was meaningful, the breakup is going to be hard. This now means getting regular updates in your news feed, access to new pictures, and the self-destructive potential for creeping to turn into a full-out obsession.
That’s the worst feeling ever — trying to get over someone, nursing your broken heart back with a tub of Double Chocolate Fudge Explosion and Pat Benatar’s Love is a Battlefield blasting on repeat… and then it happens. You login to the deathbook to see if anyone else is as miserable as you, only to find the ex’s happy-go-lucky update in your newsfeed. It never stops there. Next thing you know your checking his wall posts and pictures like a crack-addicted FAS baby strung out and looking for your next fix.
That’s when you know its time to go into facebook rehab and delete the ex… and then limit-profile every friend in-common.
Naked Quick-Fire Questions: Sexting, Anal, and Double Standards
Here we go with our quick-fire installment of answering your questions (ask yours here!), we cover four interesting questions that range from anal to double standards in online dating. The best part? We answer each one within five minutes! Want to yell at us on Twitter, just hashtag your tweet #nakeddating or send it to @smichm or @jeremywright.
First question is from WhatsInAName
What to do when you call your new date by the wrong name (happens to be your ex’s name) when you’re having sex for the first time?
Run for the hills. Nothing puts out the “let’s get busy” fire quite like the wrong name, especially if you two aren’t in the habit of role play. More than a mood-killer, its a serious blow to your lover’s ego and you’ll end your chances before you even had them… nawt that I know from experience *cough*
Laugh. Seriously, we’re all grown up enough that if you can’t laugh and have fun during sex without taking an ego hit, then you’re Doing It Wrong. You should be sensitive about it, but when your partner is able to laugh, you know you’ve got a keeper. If your partner does have an issue though? You’d be the world’s biggest douchetard to not be sensitive enough to make up for it in a big way. After all, it was your fuckup.
Second question is from BackAttack
How long into a relationship do you have to wait before demanding anal?
Demand? Seriously, demand?! Pretty sure the only time you get to demand anal is if your partner was stupid enough to give you a coupon for “Free Rump Luvin’”. And even then, you probably want to make sure they’re, erm, prepared. Not that I know from experience…
Depends. Some great situations to create the perfect environment for said demands: 1) complain that sex is boring and suggest it as a way to spice things up 2) whine “my ex used to let me do it” 3) suggest it as a great quid pro quo for forgiveness if your lover does something wrong… like calls you by the wrong name.
If all else fails, there’s always the “oops, it slipped”.
Third question is from TextaholicsAnonymous
Is sexting ever acceptable when twating?
Yes. But be extra careful that you’re not mistakenly texting your mom. She may not appreciate being asked what she’s wearing or if she’s a dirty girl. And you had better not appreciate it if she answers honestly and opens up about her costume collection.
Always. I’m sexting, twating and blogging as we speak. Ability to multi-task is a sign of a great lover. I’m just sayin’
Fourth question is from DoubleStandards
Should women and men both have to pay for online dating services? Both? Just one sex (and which)? Neither?
Dating services encourage people to be fake. Why would you pay for fake when there are so many great ways to meet “real”?
For the same features on the site? both. There are also plenty of free dating sites out there… and while we’re at it, why not try Craigslist’s Missed Connections? #sarcasmisthelowestformofhumor
Just remember — you get what you paid for.
What Do You Think?
When is too soon suggest using the back door? What’s the best way to deal after calling a lover by the wrong name? Do you think women should pay for online dating sites? Leave these and other responses in the comments below!
Naked Question #2: How Long to Wait After a Date?
In our second installment of answering your questions (ask yours here!), we cover whether changes in technology mean changes in approaches to the “waiting game”! And if you want to yell at us on Twitter, just hashtag your tweet #nakeddating or send it to @smichm or @jeremywright.
Today’s question is from Bernie:
I think the ‘wait x amount of days before calling’ rules of Swingers no longer apply due to social media/networking. Twitter allows you to contact/converse with dates minutes after parting. Are there new rules/ideas/guidelines to follow for our changing times?
Ooooh, a Twitter question! #soexciting
I’m a big believer in Twitter for dating. It’s a great way to get to know someone (you can see your personal communication as well as their communication with their friends), lets you jump in and out of conversation when you have something witty to say, and provides an easy route from public discourse to private conversation (Direct Messages, or DMs). In short, it’s the perfect way to go about getting to know someone and arranging a date, if you’re okay with the fact that your date could well get Tweeted/Blogged/Tumblfied about!
So let’s assume you’ve found someone interesting. You’ve had lots of public conversations, a bunch of private conversations and you’ve effectively gotten past the first date “who are you/what do you do/etc” awkwardness. You’re friendly and the girl is entering “intriguing/interesting” territory. Clearly you’ve also added her to Facebook so you can see if she’s as pretty as her Twitter profile picture makes her out to be.
Guy secret: girls, hate to tell you, but pictures is the number one reason a guy friends you… it’s not because we’re creeps it’s just because we don’t like surprises and are trying to confirm out attraction. Really, it’s not creepy. Promise.
In short you’ve had the conversations, checked out her Facebook and organized a date. What is the post-date protocol? Here’s my opinion and approach. If you:
- Had great and frequent conversations before the date
- Both of you clearly had a good time during the date
- You grew a pair and said, near the end: “I had a great time, we should totally do this again”
- You received an “I’d like that” in return (and avoided doing a happy dance as a result)
Then, really, you shouldn’t stop the flow of conversation. My approach is to DM her within 1-4 hours of the date (sometimes walking away if we left on, erm, really good terms) and say “Thanks for the great night, see you on The Twitter :)”. It opens the conversation back up (because if you talked regularly before, stopping for two days just because you had a date is weird and because reaching out shows you’re not afraid to man up and say you still like her in spite of her propensity to play with her hair like that means something…) in a very non-threatening way.
However, if you don’t have that regular flow of conversation? Don’t be weird. The next time there’s an opportunity to @reply her, or DM her, take it. Ultimately if you got an “I’d like that” to a future outing, and you haven’t been too much of a douchetard, you’re free to ask her out again. The ideal time is once conversation has returned to normal and you guys are flirting again. The non ideal time is the morning after you drunk dial her. … Not that I’ve ever done that… Just.. Don’t.
You and your question are so money and you don’t even know it! ;)
I think the way we communicate has changed so much that things will never be the same as when our parents were dating… or when my older sister was dating… or when the Swingers movie was made. The rules have changed with technology - and that means more than just “don’t send her a fax.”
Communication is so instant that the “waiting game” has been time-lapsed from 2 days to 2 hours. You have a smartphone, you’re constantly connected — there’s no excuse to wait when responding. If you do, you’ll easily be forgotten.
We have a lot to learn from the old rules; However, they now require communications to be condensed, with faster response times and communication that can be very public [read: easier to fail].
There’s an evolution of communications that drives us from “cute avatar” to “great date last night” and differs based on tech savvy and comfort with the internet.
This is not some jedi mind shit and these points will adjust based on your online social prowess.
- First rule is that there are no rules. Even these points are merely an outline.
- Less is more. Its called naked dating for a reason - online, you are pretty exposed, so keep it simple and leave the sonnets to Shakespere
- To introduce yourself, start with a tweet about something relevant to what the cute avatar is tweeting about.
- If this cute-avatared-character doesn’t respond after two-or-so tweets, step back. Don’t be a creep.
- If this does turn into a tweet-session, gradually take it into DM-zone.
- If you’ve successfully moved into DM-zone, bring Facebook into the mix. The evolution to facebook allows you live chat, and creep pics, friends in common, etc.
If all goes well, move in for the kill and ask to grab a coffee IRL. It’ll feel like you’ve known each other forever once you do. Also, know that your first post-date response (I had a lot of fun with you…) sets the tone and expectations for your conversations from that point forward… but no pressure. Like the the voicemail #fail in the swingers movie, don’t #tweetfail on your follow up — this is the cherry on top and can help seal the deal so be thoughtful and considerate before sending!
Okay, so I know we disagree on a bunch of stuff around Facebook. For me, I’ll add a girl I’ve carried on a few conversations with on Twitter to Facebook, not at all feeling like a creep. She seems cool, the one avatar pic seems cute, and I’m just confirming my suspicions. If she isn’t my type, I don’t stop talking to her, I just count her among an incredible list of great female friends and feel lucky to have her in my life… But then I have no issues with folk creeping my pictures and stuff in the first place, so maybe I’m just biased…
But, I’ve heard from a lot of girls that the whole Facebook add thing is grounds for serious drama. What’s the wrong way to bring Facebook into the mix?
Also, as a girl, is there still value to the “waiting game”? Was it true that being too eager used to mean you were desperate, whereas some humour and confidence within minutes or hours after a date can show you’re confident in you and don’t need to play “by the rules”? What’s the right mix for a girl?
On the flipside, and maybe it’s because I’m (oddly) traditional, but I do feel like girls that reach out right after a date are taking the opportunity away from me to make the choice to chase. You covered this a bit in our first question, but as a guy we need to make that choice to chase a girl, and a girl reaching out too soon, while it fluffs our egos as guys takes away the stressful guessing game where we push through our nerves and figure out what to say and how many smiley faces to include in the message. Ultimately knowing the girl is interested and we have a green light ish is great, but we need to make that choice to grow a pair and actually step outside our comfort zone, otherwise we never fully buy-in to the relationship.
Well Jer, you bring up a couple of great points… only a couple though :p
I think the difference between Facebook and Twitter is the openness of the two networks… with Twitter, you can openly contact people you otherwise couldn’t because (as long as the account is not private) you don’t need to be “accepted” to follow/friend/contact someone. However, with facebook, there is a certain sense of privacy with the personal information there: You need to request a friendship in order to get access to this person’s world. Most girls I know (especially the ones who don’t live in public as much as I do) value that privacy and see it as a place for their chosen friends… and unless you have the golden ticket, you can be seen as overstepping your boundaries, going into the girl’s personal bubble and losing any chance of playing in the chocolate factory. Wait till you can call yourself a real acquaintance, otherwise you risk being labelled a creep.
And you’re totally right about “taking the opportunity away from me to make the choice to chase”. We often forget about that point.
On the girls’ side, waiting for the guy to follow up builds serious anticipation and butterflies… Yet, how long it takes the guy to follow up can be the cherry on top or the nail in the proverbial coffin: Ideally, it happens the same night (once arrived safely home?) or the next morning. You know, follow up while your lead is still warm… you want to get me while I’m still gleaming, perma-smile plastered on my face and stars in my eyes like a cracked-out cartoon character who just saw the hawt bunny in the little red dress. Just as it can seal the deal, it can be uber disappointing if it takes too long… by noon the next day, if I still haven’t heard from the guy, my defenses go up, I’ve pegged him an asshole/player/not interested, and my ADD has kicked in and I’ve moved interests to something shiny… or puppies… or… wait what were we talking about?
So basically, depending on how well the date went:
- don’t change the flow of conversation
- don’t jump the gun and be desperate
- do be witty
- don’t wait too long and let her cool off
Any other tips for lonely Twomeo’s or … Twuliet’s? #groan
Yup, That actually wraps it up perfectly.
If all else fails, think “what would Chuck Norris Do?” and you’ll be fine.
What Do You Think?
When is too soon to ping a girl or guy after a date? Is the Facebook add creepy? Will Jeremy ever find a girl who understands what his mamma called his “specialness”? Leave these and other responses in the comments below!
Naked Question #1: What To Do When She’s (He’s) Out of My League?
Every week (at least once), we’ll answer a question from our Naked Public. Format is Mel and I (this is Jeremy) will each write a “blind” response (without knowing what the other is saying). We’ll then go back and forth arguing, debating or poking fun at each other.
Our first question is from Randy:
What do you think of the concept ‘out of my league’? Usually I tend to not go for girls I think are in that category.
As a girl, I don’t really believe in leagues. I’ve had “hot” boyfriends, “average” boyfriends and even an “ugly” boyfriend (or two), but that never really mattered to me. However, I know from a lot of guy friends that this is a very real concern, so yes – this concept and theory does exist, and it can exist on the male or female side of the equation:
1) The first form of “leagues” is in your mind, and it will prevent you from having the courage to talk to girls, which then, until you grow a pair, causes them to be out of your league because you lack the self-assurance that girls always pay attention to.
2) You have a girl you’re attracted to, but she’s a jaded individual who wasn’t hugged enough as a child and wants an asshole to treat her poorly. She thinks you’re “too nice” and that she’s out of your league. Think of it as a good thing, let her deal with her daddy issues on her own time. When she’s found some sanity you’re exactly what she’ll want.
All of that said, we’re hard-wired to think people are of a different league/class than us based purely on looks. I think its ridiculous because once you hit a certain age, you know, like adulthood… The ladies stop looking for a hotty and start looking for someone to spend the rest of their lives with.
I want to shake guys sometimes when I hear them say the self-defeating “she can’t be interested.. she’s out of my league.” Honestly, if you have a great rapport and you think she may be interested but are stopping yourself because you think this smoking hawt hard-body couldn’t possibly be interested in little ‘ol you… please smack yourself in the head with a frying pan. All she needs is for you to show her you can be her partner in crime - that will make you the hottest guy in the world to her. I’m serious! I fell in love with my guy the first time we met - when he started passionately answering my questions on cloud computing, it was so hawt, him.. being himself, geeking out. It happens.
Here’s a secret – most girls (especially the pretty ones) have insecurity issues – the prettier ones even more so because guys are afraid to talk to them. Trust me, I hear it from them all the time.
“Tell a pretty girl she’s smart and a smart girl she’s pretty”
Alright, since this is from a guy, I’m going to answer this from the guy’s perspective. Unless you’re Brad Pitt, or you have a history of dating really hot girls and so know exactly how hot you are, you probably think most girls you’re attracted to are out of your league. It’s sad, but true.
The dirty little secret about guys that we don’t talk about, and we’ll never tell girls (so girls stop reading now!), is that we never think of ourselves as hot or attractive or sexy or desirable. We’re able to act like we do: we swagger, talk the talk, build up habits and such. But when a truly pretty girl stops in her tracks to admire us, or when a girl says “You are so nomnomnom!” normal guys, and nice guys, will internally have a hard time believing it.
Confidence for a guy stems from the whole Beauty and the Beast image: girls are beautiful, soft, velvety gifts that just need to be loved and appreciated. Guys are disgusting creatures that need to win the girl over so she’ll see past our slobbering unkempt exterior to the worthwhile guy underneath.
Girls are taught at a young age that they are pretty, and guys are taught we should tell them that. Guys are taught we aren’t, and girls are taught to get over our depravity.
So… is a girl out of your league? Maybe. But she probably doesn’t give a damn. For most pretty girls, that aren’t in a “shallow” mindset (which happens to everyone sometimes), looks aren’t the biggest thing. Honest. I know it’s hard to believe but it’s true. So, while I don’t recommend going up to the hottest girl in the club and dropping your most fly line on her or demanding anal after the first dance, I do believe that if you’ve got a great rapport with a pretty girl you feel is out of your league that you avoid pulling a Tonia Harding on yourself.
Give you a shot. Getting a “no” sucks ass when you get it. But the “I’d like that” response to whatever your smooth question will be is worth the risk.
If you like a girl, you aren’t the only person losing out by you not taking a shot. She is too. So don’t be a douche and deprive her of all the Beast that is you. Talk to her, ask her out, and if that doesn’t work out and you are genuinely interested in her as a person, there is nothing wrong with having another pretty friend to give you dating advice… that way you can stop reading this blog (no but please don’t stop, we love you and you’re hot! Really you are!)
It seems as though we have similar opinions on this. What about the female perspective… how can girls deal with the “He’s outta my league”?
First off, men are kinda clueless, so you need to let the guy know in a subtle way that you are interested. By subtle, I mean don’t send the guy naked pictures of yourself… unless the guy is Jeremy, of course. In which case that’s a badge of honour.
With that said, I have found myself in that situation a couple of times. You know the one, when your feelings of want for someone are unrequited. Both times I found myself chasing after the guy… even after I attained him, I kept chasing to keep him interested. The more I chased, the less respect he had for me; the less respect he had for me, the emptier I felt and the harder I tried. Then I became “one of those girls” who reads He’s Just Not That Into You looking for some kind of epiphany. Eventually, I came to my senses and learned a hard lesson: my mother was right.
It may sound really old fashioned, and let me tell you how hard I tried to prove the theory (and my mom) wrong, but the sad fact is that men are hunters. Men need to feel the thrill of the chase to be satisfied. Please note I’m not suggesting *games* as a strategy; rather, men will move the earth for a woman they want - hold out for the one who’s scaling mountains to be with you.
Unless you are utterly masochistic, don’t bother with a guy unless he makes you feel like he’s the luckiest guy in the world to have you. Because he will be. And you deserve nothing less.
Wow, okay, so I learned something here. Women overthink everything! ;-) I kid, but seriously, the core of Mel’s advice is spot on: if you’re interested, let him know in a subtly clear way. Don’t confess your undying love. Don’t say you’ve admired him for years. But be clear enough. I’d recommend asking male friends about this, since female friends will often think “subtle” and “clear” are the same thing. Let me clue you in: guys can’t read between the lines. We’re barely even aware there are any lines to read between!
Once you’ve indicated you’re interested, wait. At least a week. If he doesn’t make a move, then a slightly more subtle move (wearing a great outfit, for example) to remind him of how great you are is key. Don’t offer yourself again. You’re doing the real life equivalent to a Facebook poke. Subtle, not specifically meaningful, but if he’s interested he’ll get the picture.
I had a recent girlfriend do this. I moved into a new neighbourhood and she asked me out for a drink (several folk had, so this wasn’t weird). After three hours of conversation, I thought she was great, and we were clearly hitting it off. As the night was winding down, and we’d both skipped appointments, she made a subtle remark about the night feeling “date-like”. When I talked to her today, apparently my response was a bit too coy because she didn’t think I was interested. But when I asked her out several days later, thanks in large part to her small prod, she knew her patience had paid off.
So, yes, indicate you’re interested. But don’t debase or make yourself totally available. Not-nice-guys will take advantage. Nice guys won’t know what to do. All guys need to make the actual decision to take a chance on you. If they don’t, they never fully buy in. Ultimately though, sad as it is, the best way to let a guy know you’re interested or to get him interested is to just look irresistible on a daily basis. I know, I know, we’re shallow but looking great does get our attention. And let’s be honest: we’re guys, if that doesn’t? Nothing really will.
Either way, there’s a cycle and if either of you think one is out of the other’s league, the cycle ends and both of you lose out.
What Do You Think?
Have thoughts, tips, suggestions? Disagree with everything we’ve just said? Want to tell Mel she’s hawt, or Jeremy he’s late for his shower? G’won then, what are you waiting for?!
Ask Us Anything About Online Dating
Remember Dear X, those dating columns in newspapers? Weren’t they fun? For girls, probably all kinds of “learning”. For guys, probably all kinds of entertainment. Okay it was probably entertaining for girls too.
Well, dating has changed, and so too must those boring old question and answer style columns.
So here’s the deal. Ask us a question. And both of us (one guy and one girl, not dating each other) will answer. Then we’ll argue. Then one of us will win, based on your votes. Whoever wins gets to pick the next question.
You can submit your questions by clicking here.